Art Therapy Conversations is a regular column in Envisage, developed and written by Rebecca Montgomery. We thank Rebecca for her dedication and creativity in facilitating learning and expanding connections between art therapists!

This interview with registered psychotherapist Stephanie Wu was overflowing with deep chats, Stephanie is a kind person with considerate awareness both of themselves and the world around them. They have experience working in social services, community clinics, drop-in spaces and shelters as a counselor, art therapist, facilitator and advocate. In their work and personal experiences, they have found innovative ways to create safe and welcoming environments for people to play with art and creation. They see challenges as opportunities for reparation and building trust, and highlight the importance of one's ability to self-reflect on how one moves and relates through the world. Stephanie offers both individual and group therapy to survivors who identify as BIPOC (Black, Indigenous, people of colour) and 2SLGBTQIA+ youths and adults. If you’re not sure what book to read, Stephanie is the one to ask! They find much inspiration through reading and are happy to share quotes from their favourite authors.

You can find Stephanie’s profile on Psychology Today here.

Rebecca’s narrative in bold italics below.
Stephanie’s narrative in regular font below.

Hello Stephanie! First of all, congratulations on finishing your thesis, that is no small feat! For our readers to know, Stephanie’s thesis was on racialized migrant sex workers navigating stigma and workplace and state violence.

I’d ask “how are you”, but I have heard that asking more specific questions can help us feel more connected! So instead I’ll ask:

What did you do this week that you loved?

Hello Rebecca! You’re catching me at the start of the Gregorian new year so I have had some time off to spend with loved ones this week. One of the things that bring me joy is to cook and eat communally.

And, in one word, how are you feeling at this moment?

Stillness.

I know you studied Visual Arts at Concordia during your undergrad, what led you to decide to go to TATI and work as an art therapist?

I have known about art therapy because there was a MA art therapy program at Concordia but I felt resistant to the idea of becoming an art therapist at that time. I didn’t grow up in an environment where mental health was discussed openly so I didn’t understand what mental health was and what therapy was. It wasn’t until years later I couldn’t ignore the stuckness and confusion I was swimming in that I decided to explore therapy myself. I also got to a point where the capitalist “art world” did not appeal to me nor did it make sense to me.

During that time, I was involved in community arts and accessing social services myself. I was given the opportunity to participate in peer support work at Asian Community AIDS Services and dabbled in facilitating art making workshops. It made me remember how healing and empowering it is to create spaces where one can imagine and explore themes with others.

And I think it is important for me to mention my own journey in seeking mental health support and having lived experience as a social service user because it impacts the work I do with my clients. I’m not someone that studied art therapy from a removed place. I’m bringing my lived experience, learnings and a genuineness to the work that I do and I think folks can sense that. How I identify and my lived experience is something clients ask me about because a lot of clients do not trust a mental health professional that comes in to “help” them but doesn’t have knowledge or an idea of what it’s like for them. It’s important for me to not work with folks from a place where I’m the expert and leading. I work with folks as a collaborator, walking alongside.

How has your own art practice evolved from your undergrad to now?

When I started TATI, I felt as if I had to let go of my art practice but really what I was struggling with was how to let go of what I was taught a practice was supposed to look like. I came out of undergrad with the understanding that in order to be an artist I had to consistently produce. There was pressure to create final products that can be marketable as worthy for discussion and an audience.

My art practice has shifted largely since. Nowadays, my art practice isn’t always the act of creating; though there are times I am playing with clay, textiles, painting, and printmaking; it’s become a practice of doing nothing. By doing nothing, I mean not producing in a capitalist sense but noticing and listening. Lately, it looks a lot like tuning into signs of resistance in my neighbourhood- whether it’s getting to know the names, faces and personality of weeds and fungi emerging in alleyways and construction sites; or noticing the squirrels hiding seeds in the ground…planting gardens in city centers.

While reading your thesis, I saw how group therapy can be beneficial for those who are struggling with feelings of isolation. Particularly dealing with the isolation that comes from societal stigmatization around one's identity. How have you seen group therapy work its magic?

I work with a lot of folks that are often systematically marginalized because of their identities and lived experiences. A huge challenge for folks that have been intentionally marginalized is that they may not have access to basic necessities such as safe and accessible housing, and fresh food. It’s about survival and it can be a lonely place. These are also folks that may be isolated from their friends, families, and communities, because they have to hide parts of themselves in order to be physically and/or emotionally safe.

I don’t believe we, as living beings, can heal or even survive in disconnection with one another. One of the many impacts of colonization on turtle island is white individualism that sells us a harmful image that the world is scarce, and we must take what we can for ourselves to survive.

Group therapy can be so magical because it reminds us (and I say, “us” to include myself and folks I work with) that we are not alone, nor do we have to be. Interdependence comes to mind. It’s a practice of being in relation. In many ways, group therapy is radical in a sense that it goes against the systems and institutions present in society such as our carceral systems that are designed to isolate individuals.

I’d love to hear more about the group art-therapy you’ve facilitated!

I facilitated a drop-in art therapy group for Newcomers LGBTQIA+ youths with Access Alliance and Friends of Ruby this past fall. It reminded me again and again why groups are so important. It gave folks a place to explore and reflect with each other through art making. There was no expectation that folks had to share or even have eye contact with others. Their presence, however they showed up, was enough.

One of the weeks, we made puppets that reflected how we want to express our gender if we lived in a world that was safe to do so, and if money wasn’t a concern. Upon finishing their outfit for their puppet, a participant shared how they will use their puppet as a blueprint to finally try making that outfit for themselves. I created a puppet alongside them that reflected a dream outfit that would allow me to express my gender if I were to perform burlesque drag.

We also made patches with affirmations on them for ourselves and loved ones in our lives. At the end of each group, participants shared a phrase of what they’re taking away and what they would like to gift the group. Those phrases were woven together into weekly collective poems that participants got to take with them. They became a reminder of collective wisdom and reflections.

How do you find the response to group therapy?

One of the types of feedback I often receive from groups is gratitude for having a space to explore, discuss and feel hard things that are taboo and stigmatized. Many folks I work with simply do not have safe enough spaces to have these conversations and process it through art making.

Another aspect of group therapy that I see as magical is being able to set up a space with individuals I’m working with in mind. These are often folks that have been intentionally placed on the margins by systems and are told not they are a threat if they were to take up space. For the Newcomers LGBTQIA+ group, we had the tables set up with battery powered candle lights, clear vases of wildflowers from the drop-in space’s parking lot. Participants were intrigued and excited to have a space set up specifically for them.

If people are already feeling isolated, it can feel hard or daunting to come into an art therapy session sometimes. How have you navigated this to make art therapy more accessible?

Absolutely. One of the main challenges that participants face are the systemic barriers they must navigate to access things like housing, food, employment, and for some, legal support. Having to navigate systemic barriers can be extremely isolating and exhausting. It also impacts people’s capacity to show up to groups. Group therapy just isn’t a top priority when there’s no food on the table.

With the Fall Newcomers LGBTQIA+ youth group, we held it in a drop-in space where folks had access to a hot meal, harm reduction kits, a television, gaming system and computers where they can complete homework assignments, get entertainment, and fill out applications. We tried to hold sessions on their weekly grocery pick up days so folks can come in to get their free groceries, see that group was happening and was curious enough to join us. We also had a list of referrals to other services and agencies that may be of support to participants. The idea was to meet folks where they are at.

I know you also have a private practice, how are you finding it?

Yes, I do! I was working at a Barbra Schlifer Commemorative Clinic providing free counseling services to survivors of gender-based violence. The agency was known for its legal, housing, and interpreter services as well as counseling. The agency had a triage system for the counseling department so even though we weren’t a crisis center, most of the folks accessing counseling are in high risk situations. It was a faster pace environment than where I am now in private practice though I do miss working in a team with other counselors, transitional housing workers, lawyers, and interpreters.

Private practice is a slower pace and feels less driven by urgency. I prefer moving at a slower pace. It allows me to be a bit more removed from non-profits’ neo-liberal culture. Private practice has given me the opportunity to facilitate groups that are funded by agencies so I can still provide therapy services that are free of charge and have the freedom to create groups that align with my values.

I hear you are going to be teaching workshops soon at TATI! Some hands-on practical knowledge for students. Could you tell me more about that?

Yes! I’m excited to be teaching a few new classes. This year, I’ll be teaching an introduction to safety planning as part of a practicum preparation course and a longer Risk Assessment class. I’m looking forward to both because I think those are important skills for students to learn and think about and will help folks feel more confident when entering practicum.

The final class I’m teaching is “Moving Towards a 2SLGBTQIA+ Affirming Practice”. In that class, we’ll look at what it means to be 2SLGBTQIA+ Affirming rather than 2SLGBTQIA+ friendly; historical and socio contexts for 2SLGBTQIA+ folks in the field of mental health; common therapeutic themes; and an intersectional examination of the impacts of homophobia, transphobia, and heteronormative and binary norms. We’ll also be doing some case studies and role playing which I am excited for!

What would you encourage other art therapists to do to grow in their practice?

There are many definitions of what it means to “grow” a practice and my perspective of growth may be different than other art therapists. I’ll speak of the ways I view growth in my art therapy practice. To me, it’s practice of deepening relationships and understanding, rather than measuring growth by the number of clients I have. That said, I don’t want to disregard that it is a privilege to view growth in private practice as separate from income because that is not a perspective everyone can afford to have.

I think about how my art therapy practice is not autonomous from my life. The way I practice therapy is the way I’d like to move through the world. My art therapy practice is an extension of my life, not a separate part of me or my identity. What I mean by that is that I think about my positionality and power dynamics inside and outside the therapy room. Having an anti-oppressive practice is not just a framework I strive for in my practice with clients, it’s a value I want to embody in my relationships with those I’m around. Advocating for my clients does not stop in the therapy room.

I’m also telling folks I work with that I welcome their feedback in our work together. I am open to being challenged by my clients because I don’t have all the answers and clients know themselves best. I also believe that conflicts can be an opportunity to strengthen trust, see each other in our humanity, and reduce the hierarchal power dynamics between therapist and client. That said, art therapists cannot solely rely on their clients to educate them on issues impacting their lives. Art therapists have the responsibility to educate themselves and have ongoing reflections on power and privilege.

I know you are an avid reader! What are you reading right now?

I’m currently reading How to Do Nothing: Resisting the Attention Economy by Jenny Odell, a mixed-race artist, educator and writer. I worked for Jenny briefly as a studio assistant many years ago in undergrad. I came across her work again when she was a guest on one of my favourite podcasts Finding Our Way hosted by Prentis Hemphill, a Black trans somatic practitioner and founder of The Embodiment Institute. (Side note: this podcast is another fun thing that inspires my practice). Jenny critiques how we live in a society that everything needs to be productive and by productive meaning it has a monetary value. Sometimes it’s producing a final product, and sometimes that looks like our identities that are put up for sale. I haven’t finished the book yet but I’m very excited to.

In terms of fiction, I’m currently reading “Detransition, Baby” by white transgender author, Torrey Peters. The book is about the life of a trans woman and her ex-partner who has de-transitioned after years of identifying as a woman, and their relationship raising a child with a cisgender woman. Other books that are waiting to be read are The Terrible We: Thinking with Trans Maladjustment by Black transgender scholar Cameron Awkward-Rich and Gathering Moss by Robin Wall Kimmerer who is a member of the Citizen Potawatomi Nation. I am looking for readings to pull from Awkward-Rich’s book for an upcoming class I’ll be teaching at TATI!

Are these resources inspiring your work as a therapist?

The book, How to do Nothing: Resisting the Attention Economy, makes me think about how disconnected we are from ourselves and what’s around us. It makes me wonder how our attention is a prize to be won by corporations; how everything is urgent; and products are marketed as lifestyles we need because it will somehow improve our life until the next version of a product is available. The disorienting sense of urgency keeps us out of sync with ourselves, the environment, and other beings. It doesn’t allow us time to reflect, it makes it hard for us to sit with our discomfort, or sometimes to even notice we’re uncomfortable. It becomes a way for us to numb while corporations are profiting off of our desire to not feel. When we stop feeling as a society, we end up causing harm or perpetuating harm. We often end up leaving folks behind that cannot afford to keep up with the world’s urgency.

Is there a quote that inspires you which you’d like to share?

As feminist author bell hooks (2006) wrote in her book Outlaw Culture: Resisting Representations, “The function of art is to do more than tell it like it is- it’s to imagine what is possible”.

Why is this quote important to you?

This is a quote I constantly go back to and reflect on. As important as it is for art to reflect where we are right now, it’s also an opportunity to use art to dream up alternative futures. Dreaming of alternative futures is important to me, communities I’m in, and people I work with. I believe that our world is in crisis but that doesn’t have to be our future. The quote has a science fiction undertone to me because what is possible does not exist yet. However, we have a view of it in our imagination. It feels liberating and hopeful that art, has for centuries and continues to do so, can help us construct liberatory futures.

Thank you, Stephanie, I love the work that you are doing and I can’t wait to see what you continue to bring to the healing arts field. I’m having fun envisioning what my puppet would look like, and am also excited to read and listen to your book/podcast suggestions! I am glad to hear that you are teaching at TATI, as I believe it will help many therapists bridge knowledge gaps and build deeper understandings with their clients. Is there anything else you’d like to share with our readers before we finish?

Thank you Rebecca for starting art therapy conversations to bring together art therapists across so-called Canada. I’m always looking to connect with other queer and/or trans therapists of colour so please reach out if you are one!

Rebecca Montgomery has been a regular interview columnist for “Envisage” since Dec. 2020. She is an interdisciplinary artist working out of Mount Pleasant in Vancouver, BC, the traditional territories of three Local First Nations: the Musqueam, Squamish, and Tsleil-Waututh. Art therapists (and the like) are “her people”, she likes to say, as she knows art to be a powerful modality for healing and connection. You can likely find her going for a walk by the ocean or curled up at home with a hot mug of tea, recounting an episode of RuPaul’s Drag Race with loved ones.

If you or someone you know is interested in being interviewed for this column, please visit https://www.rebeccamontgomery.com/healing-arts-conversations